How Women's Emotions are Shaped by Society with Soraya Chemaly
December 9, 2023
About Soraya Chemaly
Soraya Chemaly who is an award-winning author, media critic, and activist who writes and speaks frequently about women's rights, gender, inclusivity, violence, and free speech. The former Executive Director of The Representation Project and Director and co-founder of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project, she has long been committed to expanding women’s civic and political participation. Her work appears in The Atlantic, TIME magazine, Rolling Stone, The Washington Post and various other outlets, and her activism has been featured widely in media, documentaries, books, and academic research. Soraya is also the author of Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women’s Anger and a contributor to several anthologies, including Free Speech in the Digital Age and Believe Me: How Trusting Women Can Change The World. Her efforts have been recognized by the Association for Education in Journalism and Mass Communication, the Women’s Institute for Freedom of the Press’s Women, and the Newhouse School for Public Communication. She was recently awarded a Wikipedia Distinguished Service Award and Soraya currently serves on the national board of the Women's Media Center and Equimundo and is a former or current board and advisory member of Emerge America, Women, Action and The Media, the Center for Democracy and Technology, FORCE: Upsetting Rape Culture, and VIDA.
Links & Resources
Website for Soraya Chemaly: www.SorayaChemaly.com
Book - Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women’s Anger
Social Media - Follow Soraya on Instagram
Follow Along With The Episode Transcript
Dr. Lotte | Intro [00:00:00] Welcome to Dr. Lotte: Science with Soul, the podcast that transcends the boundaries between science and spirituality. I'm Dr. Lotte, your host, Physician, Medical and Psychic Medium, Ancestral Healer, Keynote Speaker, and Award Winning Author of Med School After Menopause The Journey of My Soul. This podcast finds its roots in my own extraordinary life experiences through my personal odyssey, I have discovered our profound connection within a divine tapestry of existence. I have traversed the realms of illness, healing and transformation, propelled by Two Near-Death Out-of-Body experiences that bestowed upon me the extraordinary gifts of clairvoyance, clairaudience, and clairsentiece. Guided by this sacred calling, I embrace the pursuit of medical school at the age of 54. Prepare to be uplifted, transformed, and awakened to create a path to healing your own life physically, emotionally and spiritually by bridging the gap between science and soul.
Dr. Lotte [00:01:20] Welcome to Dr. Lotte: Science with Soul. Today's guest is Soraya Chemlay, who is an award winning author, media critic and activist who writes and speaks frequently about women's rights, gender, inclusivity, violence and free speech. The former executive director of the Representation Project and director and co-founder of the Women's Media Center Speech Project. She has long been committed to expanding women's civic and political participation. Her work appears in The Atlantic, TIME magazine, Rolling Stone, The Washington Post and various other outlets, and her activism has been featured wildly in media, documentaries, books and academic research. Soraya is also the author of Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger, and a contributor to several anthologies, including Free Speech in the Digital Age and Believe Me: How Trusting Women can Change the World. Her efforts have been recognized by the Association for Education in Journalism and Mass Communication, the Women's Institute for Freedom of the Press's Women, and the New House School for Public Communication. She was recently awarded a Wikipedia Distinguished Service Award and Soraya currently serves on the National Board on the Women's Media Center and Equimundo, and is a former or current board and advisory member of Emerge America Women Action and The Media, the Center for Democracy and Technology, FORCE: Upsetting Rape Culture and VIDA.
Dr. Lotte [00:03:11] Welcome back to Dr. Lotte Science with Soul. Today, my very special guest is Soraya Chemaly. And I just want to first I just want to give you a warm welcome first before I even begin asking your questions. Welcome. Welcome, Soraya.
Soraya Chemaly [00:03:27] Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm delighted to have this chance to talk to you.
Dr. Lotte [00:03:32] And I just finished reading one of her books, which is called Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger. And it's absolutely phenomenal. I highly recommend it to anyone that's listening to this episode, and you will find so much solace and validation when listening or reading this book. And if you're a male, it will really open your eyes to how women and and girls feel in our society. So I'm going to just jump right in. So what makes it negative or bad in our society for women to express anger?
Soraya Chemaly [00:04:18] Laugher. That's a good and very big question!
Dr. Lotte [00:04:20] Right?
[00:04:20] I think that ultimately, what makes it negative or bad is that we have divvied up our emotional capabilities. We've gendered them in early childhood, and we've essentially said that anger is the property of boys and men. Now we've denied boys and men other things like sadness, fear, sensitivity, empathy, you know, being anxious and having solace, finding solace. But in terms of anger itself, it's it becomes very clear to girls early in life that it's an emotion that is perceived as antithetical to femininity and good womanhood. So they learn to shed it, they learn to ignore it. And that's you know, there are really I don't believe in a universals every every culture, every micro culture has its own mores. But by and large, this one is a pretty applicable one in that it's just not really welcome from anybody. But in men, you can have anger as long as it's not seen as destructive rage, but even that kind of rational anger, that's a whole other conversation, right? The rationality of men's anger. It's just not welcome in women.
Dr. Lotte [00:05:46] Yeah. And when I read the book, it was very validating for me personally, because I was born in the late 1950s, so growing up in the 1960s in Northern Europe, and I really connected with what was being shared in the book. And, you know, going thinking back to my own childhood and my personal experiences going through life, I would say every chapter probably had something that triggered a memory like, Oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes.
Soraya Chemaly [00:06:16] We all have them, right?
Dr. Lotte [00:06:17] Right. And it's I mean, it's absolutely fascinating because it also made me realize how much I have just become - it's just this is just how it is, right? You're so used to going through life and having these different experiences. And and then you also you open your book, you talk about in the book how this little boy was knocking over the castle, I think it was your daughter in the book. And this little boy keeps knocking over her castle and the parents just kind of shrug it off saying, "Boys will be boys" you know, "He can't help himself." So can you expand on how this whole thing of suppressing anger for women and not being able to show our true emotions begins in early childhood and then the real evolution, you know, that carries on into our adulthood.
Dr. Lotte [00:07:11] So I structure the book basically in one dimensional as life stages. So I do start off with early childhood adolescence, what I think of as the fertile years where even whether you care to have children or not, whether you do, whether you can, it doesn't matter because you're in that age stage. So a lot of assumptions are made about you and your life. If you can reproduce, try it. And then on through old age. But early, early in childhood, people have very strong cultural norms, traditions, biases, politeness, habits that are imbued with stereotypes about girls and boys. And so what was really surprising to me was even in infancy, people will look at a baby, and if it's dressed in a way that suggests it's a boy, they they will say that that child is disagreeable or angry about something. But if it's a girl, they think it's a girl acting the exact same way. They'll say she's sad and and needs help, you know? And the child hasn't changed. The behavior hasn't changed. It's really just the the the assumption of gender. And so, yes, this incident happened, it was in preschool and I think it's quite typical, actually, to see these types of interactions. And every morning she would build this Black Castle before school began, and every morning he would knock it down. And I, as her parent, tried all kinds of things to teach her, you know, I said, "Well, why don't you use your words? Why don't you ask him to stop?" And that didn't work. And then maybe you could sort of "You're bigger than he is anyway, just sort of body block him. You see, he's coming. Just get in his way and maybe that will dissuade him." That didn't work. And then a teacher suggested that she that she move and do it somewhere else. And I balked at that. I was like, no, I think she has the right to be here. Like, you know. And the amazing thing was he kept doing it and doing it, and his parents were standing right there and they never stopped him. But afterwards they would excuse his behavior. And in fact, I was standing there and and I really did think, wow, you know, these things that they're saying this is the exact same kind of rationalization for rape apology that we hear all the time in adult like further in adulthood. He couldn't help it. It was so tempting. I mean, what little boy could resist? Look at that castle. It just looks like it's meant to be knocked out. Literally, these things were coming out of their mouths. And so I realized that I had taught her not to be angry in a confrontational demanding way that centered her own needs, I had tried to have her adapt her behavior so that she was a good citizen or that she was polite or that she was kind and and that all the adults together had created an environment in which this little boy controlled the environment himself through his misbehavior and his lack of control, which is another myth, because cross-cultural studies certainly show that boys and girls are equally capable of controlling themselves at that age. It's just that in our culture we just refuse to acknowledge this fact, right? We really think boys can't do it. And so, yeah, that was just a typical and honestly, I probably have a dozen of those from friends and family, because once you think about it, you can think in your own experience. Oh, that's right. We constructed this reality around these children just through our behaviors.
Dr. Lotte [00:10:48] Absolutely. I mean, I'm I came to this country I think it's different also in different countries. So. Yes. Being born and raised in northern Scandinavia, in Sweden, I would say it's it's different. The boys are taught to show emotions and cry. Much, much different than -
Soraya Chemaly [00:11:06] Very different.
Dr. Lotte [00:11:07] It is in the United States. Because I remember being so conflicted, raising my two boys and and a girl that are all adults now. But living in New York at the time when they were little and, you know, seeing how differently the boys were treated versus the girls and then try to do the Swedish the way, you know, it's okay to cry your emotions. But they would be, you know, like they would be teased or be, you know "sissy-ed"
Soraya Chemaly [00:11:35] Yeah, stigmatized.
Dr. Lotte [00:11:36] Right? Because boys are supposed to be tough and they're, you know, very rambunctious and exactly like knocking down the castles. And it was so different living in that culture in New York. And that that was different from I had lived in California five years prior, and so the culture even within the country is different from state to state.
Soraya Chemaly [00:11:56] 100%.
Dr. Lotte [00:11:58] And it's fascinating and then from country to country and how we raise our kids. And it shows to right then, then we become adults and we have a you talk about in your book how when little girls are angry it's called cute or sassy and then the older women are called bitches. And then you wrote, there's a quote, "There is no there is no time in life when our anger is acceptable. Teenage girls are spoiled, silly or moody for standing up for themselves. And older women are fed up saying, no, you know are called bitter. So and then angry women are bitches, lesbian or man haters. And we call we call it Sad Asian Girls, Hot Tempered Latinas, Crazy White Women and Angry Black Women. I mean, it goes without saying that angry women are ugly women and the cardinal sin in a world where women's worth, safety and glory are reliant on their sexual and reproductive value to men around them. So none of this leads us to think of anger as the moral or political property of women." So can you expand on how girls and women's anger becomes cute, or a stereotype or even a meme right nowadays? And how does name calling and labeling reduces and invalidates our anger? And how can girls and women start thinking of anger as their own property, not just something that is to be suppressed and never shown or shared?
Soraya Chemaly [00:13:36] Mmhm. Well, yes I mean I think it's clear that there's just no end to the stereotypes about angry women. Really, any age, any ethnicity. There's a specific little variant on the theme and those stereotypes and those insults and honestly, they're kind of a threat right there when when somebody says that they're not into when they use one of these stereotypes or they respond with the stereotype in mind, you know, for for black women, for black girls, they don't have to do or say anything. The implication is they're inherently angry black people that are threatening, possibly criminalized. Right. And so you don't have to do anything. You're just on the receiving end of of these cultural norms and expectations and it's very hard to shake that because you internalize, you prepare, you preemptively try and avoid the stereotype, and that leads to suppression of anger or diversion of anger or repression of anger. But if you do that, you are repressing, diverting and suppressing your needs. You're muting yourself. And so, you know, I talk about all those stereotypes and how they work in schools or in families or in the workplace or in politics. But several of the chapters are dedicated to the effects of that on women's bodies, their well-being, their mental health, their physical health, their relationships, their their capacities as political people. Because those, those consequences are real. And very often people don't make the connection between the way their bodies are feeling or persistent obstacles that they face in life and this emotion, right? And it's because it's so disparaged and honestly, it's so punished even as as little girls. We know that girls are taught to use their polite voices three times more often than boys. They're not supposed to interrupt. They're not supposed to engage in disruptive humor. And all of those theoretically more masculine attributes are also tied to leadership and authority and humor, the ability to be funny and so it doesn't do us any good either way. It's sort of this classic double bind that you, you know, you sort of are walking this fine line and what are you supposed to do? And so that was your question. And I think several things. One is we need to be more honest, really, with the people in our lives about what's happening and because I think a lot of men don't know, and I'm saying that there are many people in our lives, not everybody's straight, right? And and that's a big part of this because if you're in a heterosexual relationship or in a very heteronormative family, if you're a girl and you have a conservative father and you know, you're your mother might be more liberal, but she's still in this marriage is a very complicated mix of things going on. But brothers, cousins I'm very much focused on men who don't have these experiences, right? Cisgendered men don't even know what's happening to the women around them, they're surprised when they learn about street harassment or racist harassment, that's sort of, you know, entangled with street harassment. They're surprised when they hear about discrimination in the workplace and one of the common responses is denial, because in fact, if you're a man and you're a, as we say, the father or the brother or the uncle, the it's your job to make sure that the people in your lives, in your life are protected. But in fact, men can't do that job. There's just no way for them to protect the women in their lives. They'd have to literally glue themselves to them 24/7. And I think that's really cognitively challenging. Cognitively dissonant. I think it's a challenge to masculine identity to really think, well, I have this impossible task. What am I supposed to do? You know, if I put my daughter on a school bus or my wife goes on a business trip or my mother is at the doctor, all this shit's going to happen and I am helpless. And you're not supposed to be helpless if you're a man in this society, right? You're supposed to be in control and powerful. And so when women are angry and they say why they're angry, that's actually gets turned into a threat to male identity as opposed to a way to say, know me better, care for what I care about, help me change this by being my ally or by helping me think through the problem. And so I think the whole the whole issue of the anger itself is really caught up in all of those complications.
Dr. Lotte [00:18:37] Yeah. No, absolutely. And so, now as this is our expectations in our society. How does this then translate into politics later in life? So, for example, Donald Trump takes the stage and expresses anger like in a nonsensical manner, and the public sees him as a strong leader and his locker room talk comes out where he's talking about women, and the public not only justifies it, but openly accepts it. And I know women personally who just brushes off and says, "Oh, it's just locker room talk." As if this is acceptable and nothing serious because they're so part of this society themselves that they don't even see what's wrong with that. So how can we change this in our society and our culture so that women themselves even understand that they are worthy of not only respect, but only but also if the man, regardless of his political power is partaking in the locker room talk, that these women have every right to be angry. So, you know, how do we how do we change that in our society? Because the women themselves, many women themselves don't see anything wrong with it because they are so used to it.
Dr. Lotte [00:20:03] And their systems justifying right? Like you want to believe the world is just, you want to believe that things are safe, you want to think that the world order you are part of makes is coherent and it makes sense. I think there are a couple of things. I believe everything really has to happen to change. Everything has to change, right? You can't just change your mind, change your mindset. Like that whole kind of for me, that individual power through, do all like that's just more nonsense because we live in a society, we live dependent on each other, we live in relationship to each other. So that's all well and good and and I'm happy that some people can do that and I just think that's not how think change is going to happen. Right? And so I think early childhood education is really important, which is why our schools are literal battlefields right now. People understand what's at stake. They really do. I, I think, too, that there's this kind of presumption, we live in a really sex segregated society. Labor is sex segregated. Emotions are sex segregated, clothes, there's I mean, you just pick your thing and there's some quality of that. Right? But the result is that we kind of expect women to somehow inherently, from the moment they're born, really, really understand what would be right for them or to be progressive or egalitarian. And that's not the case. And so you have a lot of men who are progressive and egalitarian and a lot of women who are deeply conservative and reactionary, right? There's nothing there's nothing inherent in experiencing this the world this way that would lead you to that direction. And and if you are a person who is a systems justifying person, you're going to accept these things. Now, you might not accept them in the extreme. You might not like the locker room talk, which is a form of aggressive sexism, but you are comfortable with the benevolent sexism of chivalry. Oh, but if he just opens the door for me, what harm is there in that? Right. So there are all these stages and phases of what people will find acceptable. And in the end, I think that it it requires a kind of transformation of worldview, not mindset, which is different, but a but a worldview about how the world should be structured and how we should all relate to each other.
Dr. Lotte [00:22:38] Mmhmm. And I know you said in your TEDxTalk, um "Societies that don't respect women's anger and don't respect women."
Soraya Chemaly [00:22:48] Right.
Dr. Lotte [00:22:49] Can you expand on that?
Soraya Chemaly [00:22:51] Well, I mean, I think we see that all the time. The belittling of women, the mockery of women. You know, we take men's anger politically, super, super seriously. When men get angry politically. We talk in terms of protests and rights and freedom and liberty and, you know, but when women do the same thing, it's often ignored or it's minimized or it's considered selfish in some way that's harmful to society, that women make demands. And so what ends up happening is we see in the United States, in particular, all of these movements of mothers, right? Which are huge political machines that are very effective, right? So from the temperance movements and the abolition movements and Mothers Against Drunk Driving and Mothers for Sane Gun Reform and the Children's Defense Fund, it's as though women have to say, I will tip my hat, at that role so that everybody understands know what my real value is in, you know, being a mother, putting others first, having this reproductive capacity for this society. If I say, okay, that's it, I'm a mother first, then I have the right to be politically active, to make demands, not on my own behalf. Like you don't see armies of single women naming political movements after themselves to say, I don't want to be shot on my way home. I don't want to be raped when I'm exercising. You don't. That doesn't happen very often, right? But if you're a mother, you can gather with other mothers and you'll be respected for that. That's different from respecting women for their anger.
Dr. Lotte [00:24:36] Yeah.
Soraya Chemaly [00:24:36] Right?
Dr. Lotte [00:24:40] And you talk about how women express their anger with tears. Can you talk about why that is more preferred and socially acceptable in our society?
Soraya Chemaly [00:24:55] Well, I think tears aren't particularly threatening. And sadness is acceptable. Sickness is acceptable, anger is unacceptable. So, you know, and also tears will confirm a gender role in a relationship. And it in you know, I certainly have had the experience of being so angry that I cried and I didn't even know why I was crying, you know, But it's probably almost certainly the fact that as a child, I learned that if I cried, I would get what I wanted as opposed to being demanding and difficult and angry, even if what I wanted was just fairness, you know? And so I think we're very, very socialized to act that way. Also, interestingly, in the evolutionary sense, tears elicit different types of tears, elicit different responses from the people in your environment. And I think that's also interesting that we have evolved to do that. But, you know, there's some really interesting studies of, again, heterosexual relationships, and I'm focusing on that because those are the ones that are, least cross-gender, empathetic. Queer relationships, lesbian relationships in particular, people in those relationships tend to be more honest and open about their emotions. They tend to negotiate what's happening in their households more. They are already transgressing in terms of gender and sexuality, and so they don't fall into the patterns that heterosexuals do. And so in heterosexual couples, studies have shown that men do find anger in their spouses selfish, they think it's selfish and women don't want to express anger because they fear the response from the father or the spouse or even the son in the house. They they fear all kinds of things. The withdrawal of financial support, the emotional abuse, anger back without any kind of acknowledgment of what they're saying right? and so men tend in those relationships to get angry about a woman being angry, not to get angry about what's hurting her or what's bothering her. And so in response to that, women will express their anger through fear or sadness, which then allows a man to step in and be protective and to provide comfort. And so there's a whole gender dynamic wrapped up in those kinds of ways of communicating that feels natural, but is socially constructed.
Dr. Lotte [00:27:27] And so all these women that are now not allowed typically to express anger in their relationship or in society on the whole. I know in your TEDxTalk, you also talk about the connection of how suppressed anger in women is making them sick. And you said, "I'm sick and tired of women I know being sick and tired." Which is such a good phrase.
Soraya Chemaly [00:27:53] It's not mine that's Fannie Lou Hamer said that, and I paraphrased, I had to like it's hard because in this TEDxTalks are like there notes, there's other stuff going on!
Dr. Lotte [00:28:03] Right.
Soraya Chemaly [00:28:04] Yes! She had a great quote.
Dr. Lotte [00:28:05] Right. But it is a great point.
Soraya Chemaly [00:28:07] And many of us feel right? Like at my one of my 14 year old girls, she came home one day and she said, why are all of my friends so sick?
Dr. Lotte [00:28:16] Mmhmm.
Soraya Chemaly [00:28:16] Why? Why? And I had the same feeling as a woman in my mid-forties. So many women I knew. You know, when you would get together, you get together with women, and you say, "How are you?" And nine out of ten will say, "Oh, my God, I'm so stressed. I'm so tired."
Dr. Lotte [00:28:31] Yup.
Soraya Chemaly [00:28:31] You know, that's the first thing that they say and they do say that. But if you just scratch the surface, if you just ask a couple more questions, in fact, that they're exhausted, you know, they're they're exhausted and they're angry about it because they feel taken for granted or they don't have help or they don't have understanding. Yeah.
Dr. Lotte [00:28:54] Yeah. And I mean, not even being able to express their emotions. I mean, right there, the the trauma or being not seen, not heard in childhood and then growing up and then going straight into a relationship that pretty much mimics some form of the relationship they had with the father as a child or somebody else in the family. But then all that the suppression of all that anger to go somewhere and I work so much with with people, you know, I say, close your eyes. Now imagine this is, you know, how you felt when you were angry. Where do you feel that in your body. And they open their eyes and they say, "Oh, my gosh, it's in my stomach. And that's where my digestive issues are, or that's where I have colitis, or that is where I have all these other issues, or it's the heart or is the chest, is the asthma, the headache!" Whatever it is, but once they make that connection of where do they feel those emotions and that anger in their body, that's also nine out of ten times where they're having a physical problem.
Soraya Chemaly [00:29:57] Mmhmm.
Dr. Lotte [00:29:58] Right? And so it's fascinating because it's we were taught to suppress all that anger, but then that is going to make us, just like you said, sick and tired.
Soraya Chemaly [00:30:08] Yeah. And I think, you know, it's hard for from my perspective, like I it's hard to to measure causation right? This is a very nuanced thing that we don't understand well, but there are definite correlations, like we know that certain like the ailments we think of as women's sicknesses, depression, mental frailty, anxiety, adolescent self-harm, eating disorders, all autoimmune disorders, all of them share the quality of oh, and chronic pain, mainly women experience chronic pain. All of those disorders share the quality of repressed and suppressed anger, like people who are experiencing those things when they're studied, when they're surveyed, and when people take the time to ask, this is a notable consistent thing across all of those, and you really have to pay attention to that. You have to say, okay, well, what is this connection? What is happening? Why? Why is it that we're socialized to manage our emotions in a way that is in fact a mismanagement, a dysfunction like when we think of rage? If you Google rage, still you get pictures of mainly white men punching things, walls, computers, other people, you know, that's like this explosive, destructive rage. But in fact, there are lots of maladaptations, right, and when and one of the purposes of the name of the book, it's got lots of meanings, but one is that it literally becomes material in your body, right? Your emotions and your body. And you can't separate your emotions from your body. Like we we don't have these disembodied minds producing our emotions. And so I think it's important to teach children, as I say at the end, emotional competence. How do you label these emotions? What does this emotion feel like? What is it saying? What is it telling you? It's gots full of knowledge. Anger's full of knowledge, right? And so how do you use that effectively so that you don't hurt yourself?
Dr. Lotte [00:32:18] No, absolutely. I mean, it's it's for the next generation. It starts in childhood. So women that are listening that let's say they're, you know, 40's, 50's, 60's, tuning into this episode and they're thinking, "Oh, my gosh, that's I live that every day. And, you know, I'm not heard. My husband doesn't hear me." How did it, where do they start?
Soraya Chemaly [00:32:43] So this is really hard, right? Because in fact, I think the biggest problem for many women is the risk of coming to terms with the possibility that the people they care for don't care back. You've spent your whole life, you've dedicated your life, your body, you've dedicated your body probably if you have children, but you've done this and you have your own needs. And if you say, "I need you to understand why I feel this way, and then I need you to change something, we need to change something in our home, in our family, in our friendships, whatever our relationships and the way we talk about money, the way we", whatever it is right, there is the chance, the very strong chance that the response isn't a good one. And that's frightening and destabilizing. But I think the interesting thing to me about that is that, it also really can highlight for many people the degree of their dependency, which is deeply uncomfortable. Right? Like, what happens if I learn that my spouse doesn't care, won't change. What do I do then? You know, and I think that's a big question for people. I think that's a big challenge. Which is why I go back to this idea that everything has to change. I mean, until we have basic physical safety in our own homes, on streets, like we don't have that. It just isn't, it's a fiction that, you know. And so. You know, this all roads in my mind do lead to different forms of feminism. So there you go.
Soraya Chemaly [00:34:40] But to go, I want to be more practical than that. I think something that helps everybody and it actually it's a cognitive tool is to write things down. When you write things down you you you are actually using a different part of your brain. You're processing information differently. And the first thing I would always advise people, is to understand your own feelings first, name them, think about them, make meaning out of them. Because when we don't, when we ignore them, we aren't making any meaning out of them. You know, and in fact, we are taught that it's an isolating emotion and that will be punished. So we have to unlearn those lessons. It is the most social emotion, really. When you're angry you need other people to do something for you. You need to engage in a relationship. You need to be part of a community. You need, others to care for you, this is the thing and so if you're just taught that you're there to care for people and not be cared for, that's not much of a, much of a bargain.
Dr. Lotte [00:35:44] Absolutely. Yeah. So how can people find this book? Is it on Amazon on other, Barnes and Noble?
Soraya Chemaly [00:35:52] Yes, it's an independent bookstores. I never know obviously, where it's in stock or not, but it's available as an audiobook. It's on Scribd, it's a e-book, it's a soft, it's a paperback, it's a hardback. I like local bookstores, if they don't have it, they can always order it. And yes, so so it's it's available wherever books are sold, as they say.
Dr. Lotte [00:36:15] Right. And is there anything that you would like to add or how can people learn more about you, too?
Soraya Chemaly [00:36:21] Oh, well, thank you. Well, I have I have a social media presence on most of the platforms, which is where I share articles, sometimes thoughts, a Facebook page, a Twitter account, an Instagram book page. I have a separate Instagram book page so they can always find me there.
Dr. Lotte [00:36:45] And is your is your website just your name?
Soraya Chemaly [00:36:48] It is, it's my name www and then my name, SorayaChemaly.com
Dr. Lotte [00:36:54] Okay. And we will put that in the podcast notes as well so people can just go click on it.
Soraya Chemaly [00:37:00] Oh, thank you.
Dr. Lotte [00:37:00] It'll be it'll be easy and social media accounts as well.
Soraya Chemaly [00:37:04] Thank you.
Dr. Lotte [00:37:05] Is there anything that you would like to give the audience a message or a closure of any sort?
Soraya Chemaly [00:37:11] Yeah, you know, I think that particularly if you're a woman, you're in your 40's, 50's, 60's, older, it's really easy if you don't make a conscious effort to judge and police younger women. And I just think we need to give them as much grace and freedom as possible. Just don't do it. Don't comment on the clothes. Don't comment on the jewelry. Don't comment on. Just let them be free, because we like we just won't leave them alone. And like, just leave women just want to be left alone. They just like they don't want to be lonely, but they're just like, "Can't I just live my life without all of this constant scrutiny, surveillance, judgment, commentary, demands", you know? And in fact, they just want to do whatever. Like anybody, they just want to be free, you know? And that's sort of the irony of living here and hearing about freedom all the time.
Dr. Lotte [00:38:13] I love it. That's a really good advice.
Soraya Chemaly [00:38:16] I mean, are there enough critics we don't need to add to the.
Dr. Lotte [00:38:20] Exactly we don't need to add to what's already going on in the society.
Soraya Chemaly [00:38:23] That's right.
Dr. Lotte [00:38:24] It's already difficult enough to maneuver.
Soraya Chemaly [00:38:27] It's already difficult enough. And what especially young girls need is just acceptance.
Dr. Lotte [00:38:32] Yeah. I love it. But I want to thank you so much, Soraya, for taking the time to be a guest today.
Soraya Chemaly [00:38:40] Thank you. It was lovely to talk to you!
Dr. Lotte | Ending[00:38:44] As we conclude this episode, I want to express my heartfelt gratitude for your presence within our community. If you haven't yet, make sure to subscribe, leave a review and share this podcast with friends and family. Subscribe to my newsletter in the show notes and receive new podcast episodes delivered right to your inbox. If you resonate with the interconnectedness of mind, body and soul and are motivated to embark on a journey of personal healing, I invite you to connect with me at DrLotte.com. Together, we can pave a path towards transformative healing in your own life.